I've read about her, and her films. A Malaysian friend said they were good, so I bought the DVDs:
Sepet and
Gubra. And darn it, they're awesome! My immediate reaction was "fuck, the Malaysians are far ahead from us again." Her movies made me even more embarrased with Indonesian films (and filmmakers).
I then regularly read her
blog, and my admiration grew even bigger.
Dalem, bo, orangnya.
Last week, Yasmin's latest film
Mukhsin was screened here. I had a chance to talk with her as well. As usual, everytime I interview someone that I really admire, I become very nervous. And I did with Yasmin. When I listened to the tape again to transcribe the interview, shit, I sounded so stupid :)
Anyway, we talked about a lot of things which unfortunately can't be included in my
article 'cos it will be too long. So, thank god for blog:) Here's the full interview (WARNING: It's loooong). We talked in English and Malay, so grammatical error or slim vocab (as usual) are all mine.
Question: In Sepet, I like it that while telling the story about interracial relationship between a Chinese boy and a Malay girl, you chose to stay away from the usual parental disagreement.Answer: I deliberately chose Sepet like that. Films about two protagonists with different nationalities and then fall in love and their parents disapprove..stories like that are too many ever since Shakespeare time. I don’t want to make another one like that. I want to show that even if the parents don’t mind, you’ll still have problem. Because in the end the reason for problem is the human's ignorance and fear. So, take away the parents, can it be perfect? No. Also, it happens to me. I’m not so clever; I can’t create things, or imagine things. Some people can be so creative, but I can’t. So, I just take it from my family life, my life. My husband is also Cina and my parents have no problem with it, his parents also love me. So, it’s possible. With Sepet I wanna show you what’s possible.
Is interracial relationship common in Malaysia?
It is. Relationship between different religion is also common, but it usually creates problem.
What is Mukhsin about?
It’s a very simple film. I’ve made complex filmmaking in commercials so many years that I’m bored with it. So, I wanna make it simple, like the films from (Japanese filmmaker) Yoshijiro Ozu. People say Sepet is too simple, but Japanese likes it simple. Today, you’re going to see Mukhsin, which is even more simple than Sepet. Gubra (note: colloquial Malay word for ‘anxiety’) is more complex... and now I don’t care. So, people who said that Sepet is too simple will be more frustrated with Mukhsin.
I like how you portrayed a cleric and his cheerful wife who are surprisingly non-judgmental to their prostitutes neighbors. The scenes where the cleric casually greets the prostitutes and touches a dog on the way to the mosque to say dawn prayer are very powerful.
I’m inspired by an ustadz back in Malaysia. But many people are enraged by the scenes. They said, why did he have to be nice to prostitutes? Gubra is called the 'corruptor' of culture and religion. They said,
amal ma’ruf nahi munkar, we have to prevent vice. But for me, the ustadz prevents vice by giving good example, instead of being angry. I think it can be more effective. I think Allah is more forgiving than human. If I was a murderer, and Allah was not forgiving, then I would be killed instantly.. becoming breathless. But after I kill someone, for instance, I could still breathe, eat. Human wants to play the role of God. If I have prayed five times a day, I am the king of heaven!
But Gubra, luckily, passed the censorship. Sepet has eight cuts, Gubra got no cut. The scenes that got cut in Sepet include the one where the mother and father dance, and then the mother pulls down the father’s sarong. There’s also a scene where Jason’s friend said to Orked 'Not all Chinese is a cheat and not all Malay is lazy' which got cut. Well, it’s a fact, but it’s so sensitive (laughed). When a Chinese is called lazy, they would be ‘yeah, so?’. But Malay people get angry easily. That's because there’s a truth in it.
But I like that Malay is lazy, it’s not a negative thing for me (laughed). There’s a saying goes ‘the best invention is wheel.’ Well, wheels were invented out of laziness, because people don’t want to sweat carrying heavy stuff. So, laziness can give good things. Some laziness is bad, but I like laziness that yields invention. They said necessity is the mother of invention, right? I think laziness is the mother of invention (laughed).
I’m very lazy. Look at my films, the camera doesn’t move. It just sticks there on the ground. When I made commercials, I used tracking, cranes, fast cut… But I’m bored with those. I think if the camera stands still, it’s more complicated for the actors. They cannot make mistakes. If we have many angles, you can cut, you can cheat. But if you put the camera there, you have to get it right. The emotion should be right. So, people think that steady camera is easier, but in fact, filmmakers must know about it, steady camera is more difficult.
Still camera enriches the feelings of my movie. I cannot say it applies in any movie. Eternal Sunshine works very well with the camera moves a lot. But in Malaysia, because the photographers and directors see so many films with the camera moves a lot, they want to do the same. Because they’re fascinated with the instrument. But it doesn’t work.
Another thing I like about Gubra, it’s full of Islamic symbols, but it’s not preachy at all.
There is a very preachy scene, the one in the truck when Orked was listening to the radio and said how good it was to listen to songs from different languages, and how boring if the radio only played songs in one language. I want it to be preachy. Because nobody has ever said in a film or a novel that being Indian and Chinese in Malaysia sometimes are like being in love with someone who doesn’t love you back. They have no countries, which is very sad. The Chinese in Malaysia, they hate China. The Indians also don’t love India... they’re the new generation, they love Malaysia. But they’re hurt because the system treats them like second class citizen. It’s the system they hate, not the country. Not the people, because they accept each other all the time. So, I want to preach. Every time I preach I’m very conscious with it. I want to preach, it’s my film. It’s OK to preach.
You called Malaysian film industry pathetic.Yeah, it is. Take the worst Indonesian film and compare it to the worst Malaysian film, the latter will be even worst. It’s really bad. It’s still like that right now, including my films (laughed). But Amir Muhammad’s films are good, so are Ho Yuhang’s.
Filmmakers, especially the mainstream filmmakers, are very bitchy. They hate the new wave (filmmakers). They hate me, Yuhang, Amir Muhammad. They keep people from watching our films. When Gubra was screened in the theaters, they told people that the tickets were sold out while the audience was only half. But they told movie goers that it was full house, there was no more seat.
They’re also badmouthing us to the cultural ministry. They call me corruptor of Malaysian culture. They paid some reporters to write bad about us. But the new waves are not like them. We sometimes find money for each other, act for free in each other’s films, lend each other camera because we can’t rely on the mainstream. They hate us. But we don’t hate them. We’re embarrassed about their films, but we don’t hate them. So, just live and let live. You get the money by making those films, good for you. Alhamdulillah. I’m not going to question your rejeki. But they’re not the same.
But we make films, anyway. And they are even more upset if our films got through international film festivals.
Why are they like that?The real reason is money. They’re afraid they won’t get any share of the pie. They don’t want to see the new wave happens.
Sapi.
What about film critics?
Film critics.. there are only two or three who are good. The rest are pseudo film critics, they criticize like high school students. But the two or three are very good.
Indonesians films are much more progressive. You have Nia, Riri Riza… Eliana Eliana is amazing. When I was small, however, I saw Macan Kemayoran dan Pahlawan Sembilan, and I was very impressed. And later on I saw Daun Di Atas Bantal. I quite like Arisan. I haven’t seen Janji Joni but I heard it's very good. It was also in Tokyo (Film Festival), but I didn’t go because I didn’t know it was a competition.
By the way, my friend showed Sepet to ad people here and they all hated it (laughed).
I like Indonesian films. I like Wim Umboh’s film with Widyawati and Sophan Sophiaan in it. What is it? Pengantin Remaja? I like that movie. But the best is Macan Kemayoran. It's not available, you know, everywhere. Cannot buy it here in Indonesia. They have lost the master. How sad. I like Bernafas Dalam Lumpur (she then pointed her finger and impersonated the actress: “Dasar laki-laki semuanya anjing. Bisa menenggek tak bisa membayar” before laughing) Cool. I like Paula Romokoy, very beautiful.
I want to work in Indonesia and make a film. I’ve told a friend, you don’t have to pay me for my script, or my direction. Just pay for my hotel, my food, give me a pack of cigarette a day. I just want to make a film here. You don’t need to put my name here. I don’t know, the culture is so much richer.
You always rehearse for a few months before shooting, why?
Yes, we rehearsed for two to three months before shooting. The shooting is only 12 days. Our money is very small, we can’t afford to use many films. If we rehearse for a long time, they won’t make line mistake. My films were shot very quickly and used very few rolls of films.
I also like rehearsing because we get to know the actors’ personalities. I write script only the basics, and I adapt it to add the personality. I never write long script. I think there’s no smart enough writer who can understand or appreciate real personality of human. So, I think every human being has their own well of experience, which is rich and filled with poetry. If I ignore them, it’s such a loss. So, I just write skeleton script and let my actors bring in their own life experience to it.
Is it true that you once fired an actor once during rehearsal?
Yes, how did you know? I took out an actor once during rehearsal because she missed one rehearsal. It’s not discipline, and people say I’m stern, but it’s not stern. I didn’t get angry at her and shout at all. I just said to her ‘I’m sorry, I don’t think you can come again tomorrow, I have replaced you.’ People said I was angry, but I’m not. The reason is the money is small and everybody was working in advertising. So, after 12 days, they have to make money and shoot commercial. So, if you don’t turn up, I’m afraid you will waste so many people’s time. Many people wait for you, depend on you to work hard. Especially during shooting, if you didn’t show up or you were late, you’re not being fair to other people. So, I fired her.
I hired her again, though. And she was very punctual, she showed up half an hour before rehearsal (laughed).
Syarifah Amani (Nani) appeared in all your movies. Is she your muse?
She is. Because when I met her, she reminded me of me when I was 18: Talk too much…I thought I was so clever. Now I know I’m stupid. But I think she’s very good, don't you? I don’t care if people are bored, as long as I’m not (laughed).
You wrote in your blog that people was mad at Nani in a festival film and called her “kurang ajar” (rude). What did she say actually?
She won the best actress and then said “I sound a little bit stupid when I speak in Malay so I just speak in English.” You see, people had already pointed their guns at me, but I wasn’t there. So, they took it out to her.
I wasn't there.. I was a jury in a short film competition. It was more important for me to go and encourage young people than to go and receive my award. They were so angry when Sepet won, so I don’t think Gubra would win. But thanks to two foreign juries, one from Taiwan another from Indonesia, who voted for Gubra. The Indonesian jury owns a production house, I don’t know him, never meet him.
How much is the budget for your movies?
Sepet is about Rp 2 billion, Gubra is about Rp 2.5 billion. It’s cheaper than Indonesian films. Average Indonesian films are Rp 3 billion to Rp 5 billion.
You are working on a new film now, right?
I’m hoping to make a movie called May 13. May 13, 1969 is a black period in the history of Malaysia because it’s where the Chinese and Malay killed one another. But the political secretary at the Prime Minister Department said that next year would be the 50th anniversary of the event (note: it doesn’t add up, but I’m sure she said 50th), so, please don’t make such movies. Just wait for another year. And they asked me so nicely so I said yes.
I’d like to make a film about working class women in rural areas in Indonesia. I went to India and made a documentary about working class women in the country. And how banks do not have the facility to lend these people money. The women want to borrow very little money, just one dollar per day, and they will pay at the end of the day. But the banks are too old fashion, they just wait for customers to ask for loans. Whereas you have to go to the farm and the markets to understand what these women need, then you have to tailor-made, make scheme for these women.
In India, they formed a cooperative (to help these women). There's no such cooperative in Malaysia, but in Indonesia, apparently there is. So, I want to make the film here. Also, I think Indonesian actresses are better than Malaysian actresses. I heard from Kamal Mustafa, my guru who shot some commercials here, like Bank Mandiri and Oreo, that it’s easier to get people from the streets who are very good actors in Indonesia. Even Indonesian theaters and street theaters…I went to see a street theater, it’s so much better than Malaysian. The history is so much longer. Malaysian history follows Indonesian and Chinese history. This can be interesting.
You said once that advertising is a land for failed novelist and talentless playwright. Why are you still in advertising, by the way?
I’m still in advertising because I bought my father an expensive car and I bought my mother a house and I have to pay for them. And every year I want to send my parents to haj. So, I want to make money. In Malaysia you can’t make money from film. Malaysia only has 30 million populations. If you think that you can make money from film in this country, you’re either mad or on drugs. If I can make money from film I’ll quit advertising, of course.
Advertising is the same. I always fight with clients, that’s bad for business. When I talk about advertising I wanna talk about brand and its story. Every brand has a story and you want to tell the story very well. But the client has ego. If I sense that all the clients are also thinking about brand, then they can scold me and tell me that I’m stupid and I can tell them that they’re stupid. It’s OK because we’re talking about the brand. But when the ego comes in, then I don’t want to… It’s so hard to think about the brand I don’t want to have to think about ego. When they have the ego, I said, can you please leave your ego outside the door and let’s talk about the brand? But I pay you, they said. I said you don’t pay me. They pay your salary as well. And if they say ‘can we do it with less money?’ I said can, if you take less salary and together we do it for love. Then they get very upset.
When you jumped into filmmaking, what was the reaction from ad people?
I don’t know, they didn’t tell me. But it’s OK. One good thing about Malaysia, there are so many bad things, but one good thing about Malaysian advertising industry is that it’s not bitchy. We’re very good friends. Unlike in Singapore, I don’t know about Indonesia, but Singapore is very bitchy, Malaysians are not. It’s a small community, we don’t say bad things about each other. If somebody wants to start painting, everybody supports him/her. Also if somebody jumped into film, they go and watch it.
I kinda like Malaysian TV commercials. At least they’re better than Indonesians.
But Malaysian ads are so bad! In all countries, the majority of advertisings are bad. My favorite is Japan and UK. I like those. I like the flavor. They’re not obsessed with jenama (note:
anybody knows what it means? Cause I don’t). They just want to tell a story. Funny one.
Before Rabun, have you ever made short film?
No, never. Well, some commercials I made are kind of short films. But I made feature film right away four years ago, called Rabun. The shooting was six days, it was feature length but for television. People with knowledge will hesitate to make feature film right away. But I was optimistic, I just did it.
What made you jump into filmmaking, by the way?
In my life, I never have any ambition. I just do things and do my best. I shot my first commercial because I couldn’t find directors. They were too busy. So, I made it. And I learned a little bit about filmmaking. One day my father fell ill, and I wanted to make something about my parents. They’re very old, they’re in their 70s, but they still shower together, have sex, and chase each other. Just like Orked’s parents. Rabun is about ‘naughty’ parents. I want to tell my parents I love them.
The scene in Gubra where the father was hospitalized also happened to your father, right?
Yes. My father was hospitalized, and there were tubes attached all over his body, including his penis. When we came.. we were so relieved that he was still alive. He then told my mother, “I have a tube in my penis. The nurse who put it was so pretty, we had fun. So, next time, don’t bother to come at this time, come in the evening instead.” After he said that, we all cried because if he already made jokes, then he was alright.
But there were people in Singapore who were angry with it and said, how come you made fun about ailing people? It’s so poor-tasted! But it wasn't a joke, it happened in real life! So, just watch it, don’t think too much.
Who are your favorite filmmakers?
Charlie Chaplin, Pedro Almodovar, Billy Wilder, Quentin Tarantino, Clint Eastwood. But my favorite is Pedro Almodovar. In Hollywood, I think the best is Clint Eastwood. He made simple story but so...
I like Asian film, films from Japan. Maybe because I’m one quarter Japanese. For me, the important thing in a film is a sense of humanity. Even if the technique is crap, the direction is bad, and the acting is also crap, but if it has a touch of humanity, it’s enough for me.
Did you ever study filmmaking or advertising in school?
No. I studied psychology in UK. So far, many people who studied advertising are not so good at it. The best people in advertising don’t study advertising, that I see in England or elsewhere. Like my favorite filmmakers, they don’t study films. There’s one Malaysian filmmaker, he made bad films in the 80s. And now he said that Yasmin and all the new-wave didn’t study film, that’s why they can’t make movies. But all my fave filmmakers didn’t study films. Charlie Chaplin didn’t.
Favorite actors?
John Hurt. Cate Blanchett, Gong Li. Ken Watanabe.
Do you always have to write and direct your films? Are you willing to direct other scripts, or vice versa?
I don’t think I will direct other people’s script. I will encourage them to direct themselves. People direct my script..maybe, I suppose. But I want to direct it myself. I’m not very good, but I enjoy making it. It’s fun. If I direct somebody else’s script, I cannot change the script.
Initially, Mukhsin is very complex, but I removed so many things along the way, together with my cinematographer and my editor. Always the three of us work together. We even slept in the same small apartment while we were making the movie. I always consult them together. We’ve the same references, they know the kind of movie I want, they know I want to capture the emotion once.
The story of Mukshin is the simplest so far, but the emotion I think is very complex. The simpler the film, the complex the emotion.
I found Sepet a bit too slow.
It’s my fault cause sometimes I follow the rhythm of my favorite poet. Sometimes it’s deliberate because when it’s slow, you pay more attention to the detail.
The reason I rehearse for two to three months, that’s how long it takes for the actors to realize I don’t want them to act, I want them to be themselves. They think they’re actors so they have to act. And then they said, ‘Oh, you don’t want us to act.’
In Mukhsin I made the actor chose the girl himself. I let themselves chose other actors. But I already have a shortlist before that.
Do you have a burden that you should have the marriage like your parents?Yes. That’s why I’ve been married twice. First time to an Indian man, and now to a Chinese. But as I grow older I know that my parents' marriage hasn’t always been perfect, which is better.
Gubra was my first marriage, he betrayed me. Maybe I shouldn’t have put it in film, because it’s a private matter. I regret it a bit.
